From the Comments: Michael Voris

In the comments last night, one of my British friends, Kathleen, asked this

Are you familiar with the great Michael Voris NEO? Here is a pretty pessimistic video of his:
[I removed the link, as it was bad, which happens to us all, and the video follows, anyway]
Any truth in his views in your opinion?

I hadn’t seen this one, although I have heard of Michael Voris, of course. Here’s the video she referenced. Watch it, and then we’ll talk.

As I told Kathleen, there’s far too much here for a reply to a comment. so that’s what this post is,

It’s a pretty negative view isn’t it, there’s a good amount of truth in it but, it’s not the whole truth by any means. So, let’s be reasonably systematic about it.

  1. How important is this election? Yep, I think he’s pretty much right here. Obama’s drive to transform us into Europe (that’s shorthand but, I think you all know what I mean) if carried on for the next four years may well be beyond the tipping point and unrecoverable.
  2. The Timeline he’s not particularly wrong here, with a few exceptions, strangely since about 1980 divorce has trended down, although that may well be because co-habitation has been trending up. His main point though is correct, the 1960s were pivotal, with the emergence of the so-called ‘New Left‘ with a decided anti-American cast to it. The war in Vietnam lent strength to it, I’m not so sure the sexual revolution had that much to do with it, the young have always been like that. You do remember St. Augustine‘s prayer, “Lord make me chaste but not yet”? The difference is that at the same time we were implementing policies that with the welfare system were making it possible to never grow up into responsible adulthood. The important thing here is that it didn’t just happen, the generation was taught by the left-leaning, not to say communist, university faculty raised in the New Deal era when academia became divorced from the rest of the country. It’s also important to remember that it was a splinter of the Democratic party at the time, remember the riots between the anti-war protesters and union laborers, both Democratic constituencies.
  3. Freedom of Religion Well, yes but. the funny thing about this is that the main point of that clause in the 1st Amendment was to protect- Catholics, and to a lesser extent, Jews. I follow his point but, what he seems to be advocating here is a kind of, sort of theocracy, which is no solution at all. Either you protect religions, all religions, or you don’t. Like almost everything else in early America, religion was a free market, it’s up to the various religions to sell their views to the populace. The main difference is that the population was much closer to the land, and much more in touch with reality, which demonstrated that morality works, in a far more direct way than can be shown today, when gaming the system may well work better.
  4. Abortion, and contraception Yes, and no. Many do but, the funny thing is even my liberal ELCA doesn’t accept abortion, strangely though, and this is common in a lot of mainline protestant churches, the churches do NOT accept abortion but contribute to the National Council of Churches which very quietly does. Contraception, I, like my church, put in a different category, there is an unarguable difference in my mind between prevention and destruction. I’m against both but not nearly as strongly with regards to contraception. It should also be noted that the average parishioner if very often unaware of this and would strongly disagree with that support. His point here on black churches is very well taken. The largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood, was founded by Margaret Sanger who was an infamous eugenicist, rising nearly to Hitleresque levels in her anti-black racism, and to this day, far more abortions are performed in the black community than in the population at large.
  5. Protestant v Catholic He has some point here but, it is unhelpful unless the Catholic Church would like to fight this battle alone. There are some very weird protestants out there but, on the whole protestants are just as horrified as Catholics. And the Catholic Church in America is far from blameless for this mess, either. it’s mostly time for us all to get over it, and work together. Ben Franklin was right, “If we don’t hang together, we’re going to hang separately.”
  6. Morality Get over yourself here. It’s not catholic morality, it’s the Judeao- Christian ethic which we all share. In a related note, which also ties into point 2, if we have to legislate morality, we’re done. It has to be lived, not because of the fear of the government, or even God. There are plenty of moral atheists and agnostics out there, such as Ayn Rand.
  7. Purveyor of Filth, yada, yada, yada. Yep, we are, it’s what we do, sell things. Last time I looked, we didn’t force you at gunpoint into the theater to watch it. It a free market, if the world didn’t buy it, we wouldn’t make it. Look to your own souls on this one, world.

To come back to point five for my conclusion, here’s a video I flat love, as do many of us. So many, in fact, that it went viral a few months ago, not because its Catholic but, because it speaks to, and for, many of us.

In the final analysis, Voris is not wrong but, he’s very chauvinistic and superficial here. This election is very critical to the future of America qua America but raising barriers between Christians is not the answer. The actual answer is convincing many Catholics, who are largely union members who have voted Democratic because their parents and grandparents did, that the Democratic party has left them to become  an anti-American Progressive party. I also note for the umpteenth time that the Catholic hierarchy appears to have been awakened and are providing superb leadership, which many of us are getting in line to support.

Final Point. This is America, we can do anything, including fixing the mess we’ve made but, it’s going to take time. For now, we need to slow down the train.

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14 Responses to From the Comments: Michael Voris

  1. You have some interesting thoughts there Neo though I think I would probably look at things a bit different than both Voris and yourself. Moral taboos within a society are a sign of a thriving and well ordered society. When those moral taboos are broken down, then it accelerates the decline of what we would call civilization into an anarchy of sort. That is because moral limits puts the brakes on most people who care about what society thinks of them and therefore stifles their proclivity to self-indulgence, self-love and plain old selfishness. If everything is OK because it gives me pleasure and society gives me a wink and a nod it won’t be long before the society that I am living in disentegrates: moral decay seems to be the common progenitor to the downfall of every great civilization.

    The licentiousness of the 60′s also is a component of a large segment of our society having embraced for 35 years the contraceptive ideas of Margaret Sanger and company and the domino like change in the Protestant churches to accept what they once held as sinful. This took away the stigma while science gave us cheap and effective new contraceptives. We Catholics were jealous, it seems, because many hoped we would change as well until the printing of the Encyclical Humanae Vitae. So in the 60′s sex became a commodity for the youth (who always rebel against the status quo) and men and women became play things. One self indulgence led to another quickly: cheap drugs is another example. But once the society gave a wink and a nod to recreational sex, it was only a matter of time before we should expect that homosexuality would become acceptable as well within our societal norms: perhaps the most narcissitic of sexual acts there is (making love to an image and likeness of oneself).

    The die was cast and you and I are old enough to have watched the rapid decline in morals in this country and around the world. Would we ever have expected that our school systems would start sexualizing our children when they are in grade school with their so-called sex education programs? Will we also live to see the consentual age for sex lowered to accommodate people such as those in NAMBLA? It is the difference between licentiousness and freedom and no country should try to normalize licentious behaviour of any kind as it is the beginning of what turns into complete anarchy: everyone for their own specific lust or morality. If no morality is to be embraced, then no ideology will be embraced, and if no ideology, no leaders will be respected and no laws will be followed. Children will not care for their parents and parents will abort their children. It is a bunch of individuals that hold nothing in common. It is Babel on steroids. Not only is it a great playground for Satan, it is the perfect setting for a totalitarian regime to bring back some semblance of societal order.

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    • Actually, SF, I pretty much agree with you on that. That was my point. you cant legislate morals, if you’re to that point, you’ve lost. And you’re right we watched aghast, as it happened.

      I just didn’t go into all that much detail because of length.

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      • I think that is the problem with trying to respond to everything on a video: so many of the points could create extremely long threads on the different ideas and subjects. Believe me, that was my short answer. It is some good grist for some good conversation in the future though. Just too much for one post probably. :-)

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        • Yep, the only way I was going to get through it in one was to cut it nearly to bullet points.

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        • Yeah, and each bullet could have been a long post at that.

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        • Yep. sure could.

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  2. kathleen says:

    Thanks for posting this NEO, and for the great video clip. Hope lots get to see it, especially those Catholics who are thinking of voting for a party that advocates so much that goes against our Church’s teaching!!!
    Not everyone likes Michael Voris and agrees with all he says – I can understand that – but no one can accuse him of being a coward, or not speaking out loud and clear.

    You make some interesting points in your post, much that I agree with, or, where I’m less well informed (i.e. about the US) I take your word for it. ;-) There are one or two things I would like to add though.

    Your point 4: Contraception itself – though supposed to be ‘prevention’ rather than ‘destruction’ often uses abortive methods. Even methods that are not abortive (e.g. the condom), have been proven to be ways where it is pretty easy to switch over to an ‘abortive mentality’. Subconsciously one is saying: “I want sex, but no child”. When contraception fails, as it often does, the step of then getting rid of the ‘failure’, is not so great.
    Marital sexual love is a wonderful gift from God to mankind that should be open to new life. It is of course quite obvious that not each act of intercourse means a child will be conceived, but every child is the result of this act….. Therefore sex is life-giving and part of God’s plan for man “to increase and multiply”.
    This is the Catholic viewpoint. I don’t mean to shove it down anyone’s throat, but only to explain why the Church sees contraception as wrong.

    Point 5: No, I don’t think the Catholic Church wants ‘to fight this alone’ by any manner of means. It is cheering to know there are other like-minded Christians out there who have the same qualms of conscience and high principles. Sometimes Michael Voris is too disparaging about people of other faiths, but I have heard other video clips from him when he seems equally pleased about this fact.

    Point 6: Yes, that’s what it is, the Judeo Christian ethics and morality that all true Christians share.

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  3. No problem, Kathleen, it’s was an interesting exercise. I’m in that category myself, I like his style and fire, just don’t agree with everything he says.

    On point 4, I pretty much agree with you. Like I said to SF, this was threatening to turn into a book. I see your (and the Church’s) point. I think the “slippery slope” argument is valid, and I know your points on contraceptive are, I just don’t feel as strongly. A difference in degree is all.

    That’s why I didn’t hit it too heavily, in some ways it depends on the audience what you say and how you say it. More a matter of emphasis than anything else. But, we need to get beyond bashing each other.

    Thanks for asking, Kathleen, I enjoyed it.

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  4. Sherry says:

    A thought-provoking post and conversation in the comments thread. I would appreciate a bit more clarity on what you mean by not legislating morality since our Judeo-Christian laws are founded on God’s moral standard.

    That last video has been made for Protestants, also. It is a universal and timely message for those who have godly moral values.

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    • Sherry says:

      BTW, I’m not a Catholic.
      Also, these days remind me of what is told to us in 2 Timothy 3:1-5:
      Godlessness in the Last Days

      But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

      This has been going on since Paul penned these words to Timothy. I cannot see it getting better until the Lord returns to rule and reign from Jerusalem. But, we must not sit back and do nothing about it. Though all goes according to God’s plan, He will still judge our actions and reactions to the sinful times we live in. And this reminds me that God’s Word does warn us that those who have no fear of God will cast off all restraint. Take away the reverence for God from the hearts minds of the people and they will see their indulgences to be no big deal to practice and to make as the normal through man’s standard of legislation..

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      • Amen and amen.

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    • Thanks, Sherry. You’re right, I wasn’t clear on that. I’m referring back to that Adam’s statement, paraphrasing, “Our system of laws is designed for a moral people, it will work with no other”.

      What i’m trying to say is that the morality has to come first, in a free people, because with an immoral people, freedom becomes license, as we’re seeing more and more today.

      Does that make more sense?.

      I haven’t seen that version, it is indeed a excellent message for Godly people.

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      • Sherry says:

        Thanks! That makes perfect sense.

        I agree, that ad is an excellent message for us all who love God.

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        • It surely is.

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