Brexit?

featured-brexit

As this blog is offering the ‘view from the Anglosphere’, I thought I’d say something about being back of the line, or is that queue? That, of course, is a reference to the comment from POTUS Obama that were the UK to vote to leave the EU we’d be back of the line in terms of a trade deal. Perhaps he hasn’t noticed that the USA sells us far more stuff than we sell you guys, and perhaps, being so distantly acquainted with economic realities, he feels it won’t much matter – not doubt yet more goods from China can fill the gap? Others better qualified than I have made the point that the UK wasn’t back of any line at D Day or in Desert Storm, but what’s honour when you’re a politician? Like Falstaff, Obama would probably say ‘who has it, he who died a Thursday’.

It’s a shame he took that tone, and it’s a shame that the tone of the debate over Britain’s future in the EU is one of smear and counter-smear and the stirring up of fear. The fact is no one can know what the effect of the UK leaving the EU would be, but it seems perverse to imagine it will have little effect, and so far as I can follow the argument of those who want to leave (Brexiteers) it amounts to saying that in a few years we’d have trade deals with the EU and the USA as good as we have now – gee, thank guys, so why leave?

The leave argument amounts to an emotional one – we’d get sovereignty back. But who, in this global economy has complete sovereignty – North Korea perhaps? The US, by the sheer size and scale of its economy is closer than most, but as the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world, the UK does not begin to compare with that strength. Sure, it could cut deals, but there will be a cost – there always is. The idea that the EU would seek to do us down economically seems a bit illusory – they do more trade with us than we do with them, but then so does the idea that they’d give us the same deal as they do now without our paying in what we pay in now. In short, I think the economic arguments are probably not decisive – except for one aspect – is this the time to give some kind of adverse shock to the global economy?

So it is, in the end, about sovereignty. But we all share aspects of sovereignty now. We can’t run the UK as we could in the mid twentieth century – the world has changed. The EU is, it is true, not the speediest organisation, but it is one of the world’s largest trading blocs, and it has a political as well as an economic aspect to it. It has helped entrench democracy in countries like Spain, Portugal, and even (despite the obvious problems) Greece, which have had, to put it mildly, chequered histories. It has also managed to include some nations formerly in the Soviet bloc. It’s far from perfect, but then as I look at the people running my country now, and those vying to, I’m not sure that they are any better.

Then, for me as a Welsh-born woman living now in Scotland, there is the little matter of the United Kingdom. The land of my birth, Wales, looks as though it is going to vote to remain in, and Scotland is certainly going to do so. If England votes to leave, the Union is bound to unravel. The Scots and the Welsh, and perhaps the Ulstermen, will want to stay ‘in’ and will want to if England leaves. The mess that would follow does not bear thinking about.

The small c conservative position seems to me to be to vote to remain in, with all the problems it is better than the alternative – so this woman of Welsh-German stock living in Scotland is voting to remain in the EU.

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About JessicaHof
Anglican Christian, evangelist, survivor, grateful

21 Responses to Brexit?

  1. the unit says:

    Thank you for your thoughts and opinion. As NEO said it’s up to the Brits to decide, like it’s up to us Americans to decide who is going to be the President (or is it really up to us?). I think mess will continue for all of us.
    I had been reading about Brexit and was just wondering what you thought about.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. NEO says:

    As we have agreed, I will reply with my views tomorrow, they do differ somewhat. But for now, I will mark the anniversary of the breaking of the fever of ‘The British Disease’ which occurred 37 years ago today when Maggie Thacher became Prime Minister. How is this on topic? Like this, from The Telegraph:

    She gave a letter to Sir Bill Cash MP which stated, shortly after the Maastricht Treaty which transformed the EEC into the European Union.

    [I]n her note the former Prime Minister writes: “I understand it is being suggested in some quarters that I would have agreed to the Maastricht Treaty. May I make it clear that I would NOT have done so.”

    And it also states that the EU project as “contrary to British interests and damaging to our Parliamentary democracy”.

    That strikes as pretty unequivocal, which was normal for her, she never was much for turning.

    Liked by 1 person

    • the unit says:

      Looking forward to it. Careful now. Side by Side Britannia, you know. 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

      • NEO says:

        Always careful! But, and I think part of it is age difference, and part is the difference between American and Briton, should be interesting, I hope! 🙂

        Liked by 2 people

        • the unit says:

          Interesting I’m sure. Can hardly wait. Whatever the differences I don’t think Samuel Colt will need to be issuing dueling pistols. 🙂

          Liked by 2 people

        • NEO says:

          Nope, he won’t. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

        • JessicaHof says:

          Just as well – I used to be OK with a shotgun, but couldn’t hit a barn door with a pistol 🙂 xx

          Liked by 2 people

        • NEO says:

          I could, maybe – I need a bunch of range time, but the target won’t have your picture on it! 🙂 xx

          Liked by 1 person

        • the unit says:

          I was researching Jessica’s past Welch. Maybe Bronze Age (hammer, I have a good one), Iron Age (important nail, that a hammer meets to build and hold together) or Stone Age (hunter gatherer…OK with shotgun, well once upon a time). All OK with me. 🙂

          Liked by 2 people

  3. the unit says:

    Yeah lot’s have changed. Side by Side Britannia both need a…

    Liked by 2 people

  4. http://www.economist.com/node/21695958 This looked interesting! For better or worse immigration must always be considered. The real issue is the British Monarchy, what is it…really? And will the British be ever again, something of being Britannia Metal!

    *But then hey, I am an old retired “Bootneck”! 😉

    Like

    • the unit says:

      Father Robert, it was interesting, and the comments as well. A deal is mentioned and I guess it will come down to the art of it. Most of us won’t be in on it. 🙂
      Concerning the “real issue”, I know nothing about it. ?

      Like

      • @Unit: For the “real issue” I guess one must be a Brit! So called Great Britain is a very complicated country, especially since WW II. And it is always also European! Not an easy issue for most Americans!

        Like

        • And the EU question (to leave or stay) is NOT a right verses left issue, again complicated!

          Liked by 1 person

        • the unit says:

          Yeah, I don’t even know the issue. Was not Europe happy with the outcome of both wars to end all wars, i.e. peace? Maybe some deep, long held animosities to …
          “When the German fleet entered the Firth of Forth, making the most stupendous surrender in history, the world recognized in some part Britain’s contribution to the German defeat. Since Carthage bowed to Rome, there has been nothing to compare with the spectacle. It was the freedom of the seas vindicated, when the German fleet, still in being, struck its flag.”

          Like

        • I think most Brits, especially the ones who lived through both WW1 and 2, saw WW II as somewhat connected to WW1. It surely was for many Germans! This was one of the ways Hitler came to power, hatred and prejudice became the way to scapegoats! As the Jewish people, etc. Not to mention the heavy hand of the Treaty of Versaillies! It is quite interesting that in WW1 the King of England and the Kaiser were actually cousins. In all combatant armies over 9 million men died in uniform! This so-called War to end all Wars was just the beginning of War! And it shall only end when Jesus Christ as Lord Comes back to the Nation and Land of Israel! (Zech. 14)

          Like

        • Btw, surely WW 1 was the first so-called modern war! And the boundary lines are still affected in counties like Bosnia and Serbi, etc.Modern Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. And now, as then the religion of Islam also! The Archaic Empires – Russia, Austria -Hungary and Germany were all ruled formally by feudal heirarchies! All this still somehow affects the region, especially with Islam moving and crossing into Europe now.

          Like

        • *countries

          Like

        • the unit says:

          You mentioned some issue of the monarchy. Early Britannia the King was in charge…
          I, I, I, me, me, me like our King of U.S. today…
          “I am deeply touched by America’s celebration of British Day. The people of the Empire join ME in thanking you and those associates with you for your efforts in promoting a celebration which we welcome as proof of the true and lasting friendship of the United States. It will be a particular satisfaction to MY Navy and Army to feel that they have won the esteem of a nation which sent so many gallant men to suffer with them in the trials of the great war, and to share the glorious victory. In the name of the Empire, I thank the people of the United States. I pray that the coming era of peace may find the two nations always united, as to-day.” Caps of me and my…I, I, I, me, me, me doing. 🙂

          Like

  5. Pingback: Brexit: the View from the Prairie | nebraskaenergyobserver

  6. Pingback: Brexit | nebraskaenergyobserver

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